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| Posted: 20 Nov 2008 16:46 |
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The history Rogers posted was interesting.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2008 19:03 |
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No comment at all on Michael's vid?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2008 19:40 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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Steve, my question was about followers who get the 'wrong' messages as opposed to the ones who get the 'right' messages as they're both supposed to be following the same source(s).
The people got their source from the pope. But where did the pope get his source from? Well he thinks it was a command from God, but it wasn't. The man was obviously corrupt/bloodthirsty/crazy. It was a radical idea that he himself created, and put into the minds of others.
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Why is it that two people who both consider themselves good Christians can do completely opposite things and believe this is what they are supposed to be doing?
You can know by reading the Bible. Also know and follow the commandments and understand the difference between what is a sin and what is not. If the pope did this, then this would not have happened.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 21 Nov 2008 02:51 |
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The people got their source from the pope.
I thought the Bible was the source? and you later say if the pope did something, something else wouldn't have happened? That's an odd circle that just collapsed under it's own weight.
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I asked why two people who both consider themselves good can do opposite things and you tell me I have to read the Bible to understand this? Since you're so knowledgable about the book, how about just telling me in your own words?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 21 Nov 2008 19:04 |
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I hope you understand there is a big difference doctrinally between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants don't listen to the pope. We don't go through priests. We pray straight to God through the Lord Jesus, and we read the Bible ourselves. One of the things our founders wanted was for an educated group of citizenry that would be able to understand the bible so one man or small group could not make up their own interpretations of the Bible.
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I asked why two people who both consider themselves good can do opposite things and you tell me I have to read the Bible to understand this? Since you're so knowledgable about the book, how about just telling me in your own words?
Mostly everyone considers themselves good, but the Bible says our righteousness is as filthy rags. Even when we think we are right we inevitably have the wrong motives. The nature of man is wicked. We are selfish by nature wanting for ourselves and not for others.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 21 Nov 2008 20:59 |
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So, if what I'm getting from you guys is correct, you all are flying through life the same as me then. -Before- flying off the handle at this, please consider(both of you):
You both have the Bible as a source(or guidance as it were), but can select what you wish to follow from it. You both have leaders to turn to, which may or may not be giving you the proper meanings or definitions whether by choice or no fault of their own(Popes who start wars, 'selfish by nature, wanting for self and not others'.
You can call me crazy and/or wicked, but I'm really not seeing a true division between us here aside from the titles and geography.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 22 Nov 2008 16:39 |
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Let's see the way I see it is this. There is only one right and wrong, and there is only one correct interpretation of the Bible.
Now that being said I don't want to attack Catholics because I disagree on many doctrinal issues. I'd like to discuss it, but you know how hard it is to delve into religion and politics before all hell breaks loose.
There is much I personally have yet to understand about the Bible. It's a complicated book in some ways while yet so very simple in others. It takes lots of time to study. I wish I had time to take a college course on the Bible, but I bet a person could go to school all their lives and still only touch the surface.
Still from reading I can't see any place where it says we need a priest other than the Lord Jesus. I think there are a lot of traditions that start in Christian denominations that aren't really based on scriptures. Men start traditions that aren't necessarily meant to be in place by God.
A Pope or a preacher is just a man. The Bible says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So the Bible teaches that while you show respect for those that preach the gospel you better know the bible for yourself. You can't put your faith into another man. Only God is perfect. If I had to base my faith on the actions of other men I might find myself doubting God.
On judgment day, God isn't going to ask us what so and so did. He's going to ask us personally what we did. The first question is our your sins washed by the blood of the Lamb?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 22 Nov 2008 22:42 |
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With 1000's of denominations to choose from and only one true interpretation of a confusing set of scriptures under the Christian arm of the Abrahamic faiths alone, I can't fathom how you'd rationalize that your interpretation is the one true correct one. Not that you need to explain such to me of course. It just doesn't make sense to me. Sorry.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 22 Nov 2008 23:59 |
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Dude, it's called reading it for yourself. It's really difficult actually to read the Bible and not come away with a clear understanding of the easy stuff.
Hard to confuse Jesus teachings that adultery is bad, stealing is bad, there is only one way to heaven. If you read it there is no other opinion you can make other than Jesus is the only way to heaven. Unless of course your you and don't believe the Bible.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 23 Nov 2008 13:46 |
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It's difficult to actually read that book and find 'easy stuff' that actually makes sense without preconditions(ala Ken Ham's 'Jesus Glasses'). If you want to see what I'm talking about, try reading the Quran and get back to me. Muslims will swear up and down that their stories and laws and poems are all true and profound and prophetic and absolutely unshakable evidence of Allah's existence and will- I really doubt you'd feel anywhere near the same if you picked it up. Until you read the Quran, stop telling me to read the Bible, please.
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adultery is bad, stealing is bad,
Hammurabi came up with these and had them set in stone quite literally many many many years before anyone heard of Jesus. Furthermore, you don't need a holy book or Jesus to know these are bad.
As for Heaven, no two believers can even describe the place adequately or give matching accounts of what it's supposed to be. Reading the Bible helps to inform and reinforce nonbelievers just as well as believers in matters such as 'Heaven' and 'Hell'.
I also now know a little of the history of the Bible itself and it's canon, it's collection and dissemination. I don't think you're terribly aware of all the missing and edited parts that got discarded into oblivion for the sake of politics and public relations either. I am and you only have yourself to thank for this- I never would have looked into it but for your insistance time and again to llok for meaning in the Bible. I found plenty of meaning, none of which you'll probably appreciate.
I won't 'bash' the good book as a gesture of kindness towards you and Steve and any other believers that might be prowling in the background. (it might seem like I have but, please believe me, I've been quite kind and generous here-really, believe me on this)Please understand this also - I have not one single solitary reason to believe anything in it and every reason to question every line of it. I don't believe the Bible, and have many great reasons for my disbelief. Ask yourself why you don't believe what's in the Quran and you might understand a few of my reasons without me even having to mention them.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 24 Nov 2008 16:24 |
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It's easy not to believe the quran. A lot of those readers go and strap bombs to themselves.
And God actually told Moses about stealing before Jesus arrived even though technically Jesus was always in existence.
GE 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
JOH 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JOH 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
JOH 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
JOH 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
JOH 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
I appreciate the idea you don't want to attack us. Let me ask you this for all this stuff you supposedly got on the Bible, did you ever think there might be another point of view? Did you seek answers from the other side?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 24 Nov 2008 22:25 |
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And God actually told Moses about stealing before Jesus arrived even though technically Jesus was always in existence.
We don't need God to tell us that stealing is wrong. Law of Hammurabi is still older than that story as well anyway(even though we'd still know stealing is wrong without it).
Bible quotes are supposed to prove something here? Quoting from the book doesn't make the book true. Circular logic and all that.
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Let me ask you this for all this stuff you supposedly got on the Bible, did you ever think there might be another point of view? Did you seek answers from the other side?
I'm trying to be nice. You're making that difficult. I know something of the verified history of the book and you want me to dispute that with heartfelt pleas of true believers? c'mon
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 24 Nov 2008 23:19 |
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I don't think you know as much as you think. Most of the information you believe is from other atheists.
It's so simple dude. You look around at the mountains, the trees, the animals, and then tell me there is no God. It's ridiculous. "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God." It just takes a lot more work to deny God's existence than to accept it. You have to deny your own common sense to deny God.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 24 Nov 2008 23:28 |
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You have to deny your own common sense to deny God.
Others say the same about you for not recognizing Allah's handiwork.
I'm looking around....trees, animals, the sky....still no God necessary.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 25 Nov 2008 16:43 |
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Yeah, because we all just popped into existence by a big accident. Doesn't make sense. It's like saying my car just popped into existence after millions of years.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 25 Nov 2008 20:23 |
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Life sure must be disappointing to be an atheist. I wouldn't want to live with no other purpose than to die. With atheism, if someone you care about loses a loved one, what can you tell them? That's they've gone to a better place? No. You cannot tell them anything.
I like the way Lou Gramm put it:
"Is this a road going nowhere?
Is someone leading us somewhere?
I can't believe we're here for no reason
There must be something we can believe in"
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 25 Nov 2008 20:28 |
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I'm looking around....trees, animals, the sky....still no God necessary.
Really? Are you sure? Take a good look around you. See the beauty in the trees and the sky. Do you really think that all of it was just an accident? A result of pure chance?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 25 Nov 2008 21:49 |
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I really think my car evolved from a spark plug. Probably took a few million years or so though.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 25 Nov 2008 21:58 |
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Really? Are you sure?
100% Steve. It could be a higher power but it's not nocessary.
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we all just popped into existence by a big accident.
If there's no guiding invisible hand, then yes, we're very lucky to be here at all.
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It's like saying my car just popped into existence after millions of years.
Nope, it's really not.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 25 Nov 2008 23:00 |
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I saw a tadpole spontaneously pop up into a cat yesterday.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 26 Nov 2008 13:54 |
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You need to get out of the house more or alter your medication.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 26 Nov 2008 17:33 |
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Are you kidding me I could be the next Darwin with my theories.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 26 Nov 2008 20:26 |
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Making jokes about your own strawman is a possible sign of mental illness, not genius.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 27 Nov 2008 00:55 |
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You got to laugh sometime or you'll just mean yourself to death. Smile dang you.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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