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| Posted: 15 Jul 2008 21:47 |
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Ok. Is that wrong? __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 15 Jul 2008 21:51 |
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If it floats your boat. __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 15 Jul 2008 22:00 |
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I might have a different gospel but I feel just as compelled as you to spread a little truth around. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 01:10 |
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There is a bit of a difference, your 'gospel' is taught as official dogma in taxpayer-supported indoctrination centers--I mean, schools.
Oh well, what else can you expect as the whole show starts to wind down? __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 02:15 |
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That's not fair. The most valuable things I think about, the most valuable things I talk about, were not from our public school system. That time was mostly for people skills and little else. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 02:52 |
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That was in no way a slam on you, Pak. __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 04:15 |
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None taken. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 23:39 |
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Quote: Because 'creation science' is imaginary, as are its' 'scientists'. Sounds to me like you've pretty much got your mind set. Even if God himself came down to earth and ...wait He already did. Think about it. __________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 23:48 |
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I think if it were actually that important, he'd have made the effort to reach all of us. Neither here nor there in what you responded to.
You asked me about creation science, and it still does not exist. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 23:51 |
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Like I said you've drawn a line in the sand that any science that might prove the events detailed in the Bible cannot be true, or that would burst your bubble.
You got to have a open mind. Don't be so narrow. __________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2008 23:56 |
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Quote: you've drawn a line in the sand that any science that might prove the events detailed in the Bible cannot be true
I don't have to draw a line. There is no science in the bible and none that has been presented to date that withstands the slightest scrutiny to prove anything in the book of genesis is more than an allegory. That's not a bubble, that's just they way it is.
Quote: You got to have a open mind. Don't be so narrow
Good advice. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 17 Jul 2008 00:24 |
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So Pak, are you telling me that you would, with an honest and open mind, take a good hard look at scientific work done by creationists without automatically dismissing it out of hand because it was done by creationists? __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 17 Jul 2008 00:50 |
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Quote: are you telling me that you would, with an honest and open mind, take a good hard look at scientific work done by creationists
The only way you can find out is by posting it. The only promise I can offer is to read as much as I can and use my own best judgement, as someone who is neither a scientist or evangelical. If I am to be completely honest though, it already has a terrible knock against it being proclaimed scientific work by creationists-I stand by what I've been saying. Also keep in mind that if the scientific community already disregarded, disproved, discarded or just destroyed it, I'm not one to argue. Just the same, I'd be interested in seeing it and judging for myself if there's even a grain of ingenuity to it. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 17 Jul 2008 15:27 |
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Well I posted this once.
Quote: If the Genesis Flood, as described in Genesis 7 and 8, really occurred, what evidence would we expect to find? After noting in Genesis 7 that all the high hills and the mountains were covered by water and that all air-breathing life on the land was swept away and perished, it should be obvious what evidence we would expect to find.
Wouldn’t we expect to find rock layers all over the earth filled with billions of dead animals and plants that were buried rapidly and fossilized in sand, mud, and lime? Of course, and that’s exactly what we find. Furthermore, even though the catastrophic geologic activity of the Flood would have waned in the immediate post-Flood period, ongoing mini-catastrophes would still have produced localized fossil deposits.
Countless billions of plant and animal fossils are found in extensive “graveyards” where they had to be buried rapidly on a massive scale. Often the fine details of the creatures are exquisitely preserved.
For example, billions of straight-shelled, chambered nautiloids are found fossilized with other marine creatures in a 7 foot (2 m) thick layer within the Redwall Limestone of Grand Canyon. This fossil graveyard stretches for 180 miles (290 km) across northern Arizona and into southern Nevada, covering an area of at least 10,500 square miles (30,000 km2). These squid-like fossils are all different sizes, from small, young nautiloids to their bigger, older relatives.
To form such a vast fossil graveyard required 24 cubic miles (100 km3) of lime sand and silt, flowing in a thick, soup-like slurry at more than 16 feet (5 m) per second (more than 11 mph [18 km/h]) to catastrophically overwhelm and bury this huge, living population of nautiloids.
For the entire article -
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n2/world-graveyard
And then I posted this once -
Quote: Some scientists think they have figured out the real job of the troublesome and seemingly useless appendix: It produces and protects good germs for your gut. http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/05/appendix.purpose.ap/index.ht ...
So all these years evolutionist used the appendix as an example of evolving. They said we have this part that we just no longer need anymore. We just evolved to the point it was useless, but here we go, now we know it has a purpose. Proving once again evolutionist jump the gun everytime they claim to have proof. I just watched a movie the other day of a classroom where the appendix was held up as proof of evolution. I wish I could remember the name of it.
Here's a bunch of quick facts to think about.
http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm#series
Quote: A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 to the 4,478,296 power.
I think this site http://www.answersingenesis.org/ is probably the best source for looking at science and the facts through a creationists point of view. __________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 17 Jul 2008 16:26 |
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I don't know. The first one saying 'that's what we have' strikes me as suspicious from jump street. It sounds like someone trying to assign a result to a cause that probably is not true. I'm not entirely sure whether or not the appendix being useful helps or harms evolution in either case. The living cell one doesn't seem to be saying anything really. It's giving odds on something happening by chance when evolution doesn't use chance as a cause. Let me see what talkorigins has to say.
On the effects of such a flood:
Quote: How can a single flood be responsible for such extensively detailed layering? One formation in New Jersey is six kilometers thick. If we grant 400 days for this to settle, and ignore possible compaction since the Flood, we still have 15 meters of sediment settling per day. And yet despite this, the chemical properties of the rock are neatly layered, with great changes (e.g.) in percent carbonate occurring within a few centimeters in the vertical direction. How does such a neat sorting process occur in the violent context of a universal flood dropping 15 meters of sediment per day? How can you explain a thin layer of high carbonate sediment being deposited over an area of ten thousand square kilometers for some thirty minutes, followed by thirty minutes of low carbonate deposition, etc.? [Zimmer, 1992]
How do you explain the formation of varves? The Green River formation in Wyoming contains 20,000,000 annual layers, or varves, identical to those being laid down today in certain lakes. The sediments are so fine that each layer would have required over a month to settle.
How could a flood deposit layered fossil forests? Stratigraphic sections showing a dozen or more mature forests layered atop each other--all with upright trunks, in-place roots, and well-developed soil--appear in many locations. One example, the Joggins section along the Bay of Fundy, shows a continuous section 2750 meters thick (along a 48-km sea cliff) with multiple in-place forests, some separated by hundreds of feet of strata, some even showing evidence of forest fires. [Ferguson, 1988. For other examples, see Dawson, 1868; Cristie & McMillan, 1991; Gastaldo, 1990; Yuretich, 1994.] Creationists point to logs sinking in a lake below Mt. St. Helens as an example of how a flood can deposit vertical trunks, but deposition by flood fails to explain the roots, the soil, the layering, and other features found in such places.
On vestigal organs having use:
http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB360.html
On cells coming together by chance:
http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010_2.html __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 17 Jul 2008 17:06 |
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So we have same evidence but different interpretations basically based on different starting points. __________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 17 Jul 2008 19:15 |
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One is saying 'use your imagination' in what it would look like and telling us that's what we have, which is disingenuous. The other is pointing out the inconsistencies with that assumption and similar ones. Say-so is not evidence.
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In the second we have someone pointing out that the appendix may not be useless after all and that's it. I have to assume that you are pointing out what someone else calls a vestigal organ and that it has bearing on evolution. If that was not what you were pointing out, please clear it up. The article itself says nothing about evolution or even proposes a link between the two. 'Common knowledge' is not evidence.
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Lastly, on the chance of 'assemblege', it's just a false argument. The statistic provided has nothing to do with your argument, if there's even an argument there. 'Because I say it matters' is not evidence except for pointing out a source towards another argument. It doesn't provide evidence for any other argument by itself. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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