Gary DeMar is interviewed on broadcast television on the subject of America's Christian foundations. The host of the show plays devil's advocate and probes Gary's research to answer the common questions that people have that are uninformed about America's historical facts.
America's Christian Heritage (TV Interview) Pt 2
Gary's interview on Focus4 continues addressing where our American rights come from. Gary uses the biblical model to explain a Christian perspective of liberty in society. Gary deals with this and more in today's episode of The Gary DeMar Show. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 02 Aug 2011 16:21
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Should I assume you watched the video then, pak? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 02 Aug 2011 22:00
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I watched most of the first one. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 04 Aug 2011 00:56
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To be fair, I watched the second video. It didn't add much to the first, didn't say much on its own and didn't even conclude the show.
America is not now and never has been a 'Christian nation'. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 04 Aug 2011 15:56
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No America has not now or ever been an atheistic or a communist nation for that matter. Our belief in God is the basic foundation of our freedom. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 04 Aug 2011 16:48
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I say it is our belife in the basic equality of humanity that is the foundation of our freedom. The fact is people believed in Gods and God for centuries before America, but the expression of equality of both serf and gentry doesn't occur as part of a national ethos until America.
While you can argue that this equality may have been endowed by a creator (if you believe in such things) it is that sense of equality that seperates America's founding documents from say the Magnecarta which only extended Equality to the nobels, not all citizens.
That said expressions of equality were not common in the US for a long time, but the principle at least was the foundation of our belife in our Freedom, and that principle is what allowed our progress to a society of equals regardless of race, gender and socio-economic status (at least in theory if not in practice).
America isn't an "Atheistic" nation, in that being Atheistic would be establishing a national philosophy. But we aren'ta Christian nation for the same reason. We are a nation with Christians, and Atheists, and a number of other groups as well, and what unites us as a nation is that belife in equality, regardless of whence you feel personally it derives.
Posted: 04 Aug 2011 21:05
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Quote: No America has not now or ever been an atheistic or a communist nation for that matter
The word is secular. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 04 Aug 2011 22:53
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I guess a completely secular government does have similarities to communism doesn't it? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 04 Aug 2011 23:16
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I'd imagine everything you don't agree with has similarities to communism. Go ahead and feel free to list off all the similarities between secular government and communism; make as long of a list as you're able and we'll see how similar they are. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 05 Aug 2011 06:41
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Actually wouldn't a fully christian govenrment be comunist, as one would be directed to give all one has to the poor and dedicate their lives to the service of Jesus (here represented by the state, since it'a christian nation and all)?
Posted: 05 Aug 2011 12:32
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That actually sounds more like a socialist system Matches. Not that they would ever accept either label. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 05 Aug 2011 19:23
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Quote: Actually wouldn't a fully christian govenrment be comunist, as one would be directed to give all one has to the poor and dedicate their lives to the service of Jesus (here represented by the state, since it'a christian nation and all)?
Nope we originally had a perfect Christian government already. People prayed and read the Bible in public but they weren't forced to accept any particular religion, and nobody was forced to give money to the poor. Now we can't pray in public without a fight, and the government takes money by force to give to others. More closer to a communist country than we ever used to be.
A perfect Christian government never forces anybody to serve God because after all a man's heart or thoughts cannot be controlled anyway. That'something between God and the individual. There was a time when praying in public and talking about God anywhere in America was perfectly fine. That's what a Christian nation is. Not some scary world where everybody is forced to pay tithes. Sure I know there may have been Christians who may have thought that would be a great idea to force people to go to church, but our founders never meant for something like that obviously. Freedom to serve God as one chooses that's what it's all about. Not putting up stupid regulations prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Now where of I heard that before? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 05 Aug 2011 20:16
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Exactly who is stopping you from praying in public or reading the bible in public? Who is infringing on your personal right to pray and live christianly on your own time?
Have you contacted the ACLU to help you sue them to ensure your protection under the first amendment? Because you know they do that too.
Posted: 05 Aug 2011 20:55
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Thanks for all those similarities between secular and communist countries Tim.
Perfect Christian government sounds awfully similar to a perfect Islamic government; awful. When we tried the Christian version, was that the dark ages?
All that concern about money sounds like exactly what Jesus would have wanted as well. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 06 Aug 2011 19:23
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What makes you think that Jesus would want somebody to rob from the rich and give to the poor? Jesus wanted people to give of their own free will not be forced to at gunpoint. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 06 Aug 2011 21:22
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Tim, why do you expect the government to make roads? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 06 Aug 2011 22:22
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Quote: What makes you think that Jesus would want somebody to rob from the rich and give to the poor? Jesus wanted people to give of their own free will not be forced to at gunpoint.
Actually...he expected you as a follower of Christ to give of your own free will all that you have to the poor. I recall in acts that equal distribution of the resources among the community was one of the many day to day things the early deacons of the church were charged with.
If you encounter a stranger who has no food, you are asked to give it to him, if he is naked you are asked to cloth him, if he is infirmed you are asked to tend to him.
Now all that said, that's your personal action as a christian, to share all that you have with your community to ensure that no go hungrey or without shelter.
The state by contrast has a responsibilty outside of christian values to protect those within it's boarders. To do so, it demands from each citizen a portion of the good fortune they receive as members of the state. That's only fair. And in return the state gives us various forms of security and protection against threats foriegn and domestic. That is the full purpose of a nation. To provide those protections as the population deem necessary.
If we were a christian nation, and each citizen were expected to act in a christian way, then ammount of contribution expected, and the ammount of protection provided would be far greater, as we are not a christian nation, we engage in a debate about how much the government should ask and of whome, and what forms the security the government should take. If we were a christian nation, then the math is easy all give according their ability and all take according to their needs. As a secular nation, we simply discuss amongst ourselves to determine what our needs are and find options to fund and provide them.
Posted: 08 Aug 2011 17:17
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Quote: Tim, why do you expect the government to make roads?
Why not they got to do something I can use.
Quote: Actually...he expected you as a follower of Christ to give of your own free will all that you have to the poor.
The Bible also says if a man doesn't take care of his own he is worse than an infidel. So obviously Jesus expects us to keep enough money to take care of our families.
Second the key here is expecting us as individuals to give to the poor vs having the government force somebody to give. Would you mister separation of church and state have the government force people to give to the poor because Jesus said to? To do that would be like forcing somebody to give their heart to Christ at the point of a gun. Not very Christian or American.
What it sounds like from me is you want a socialists society or communist society where we all chip in together and basically give up our freedoms and individuality for the sake of the greater good. It worked so well for Russia too. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 08 Aug 2011 18:51
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No, what I am saying is Jesus wants us to live in a socialist society, to make sure that all our neighbors are cared for, and that his apostles made sure that all those in their community were taken care of by taking the general resources of the group and distributing them evenly.
Certinaly one should take care of their own, but there is a big differnce from making sure your family has bread, and making sure your family has beef while your neighbors starve.
But again, that's not the place of the state to take everythign you have the way Jesus asks, because we are not a Christian nation. We are a secular nation looking to provide the minimum level of care for those who live under it's rule, or on ocassion no care what so ever (say if you are an llegal immigrant, or someone with a minor drug offense in one's past).
THe bottom line is, if you want to establish a naitonal religion, recognize that this moral stance is the key of christianity. Or you can live in a free state, where each individual is given the right to believe what he or she wishes without the oppression of the christian state to love one's neightbor as onself (oh there's an interesting semantic argument, if you are to take care of ones own else be an infidel, then please keep in mind that jesus said every infidel is infact your own, what so ever you do to the least of my brothers and all that).
I'm not arguing for socialistic society, quite the opposite I think such a society, because it offers no defense against corruption is doomed to fail, just as a christian state is doomed to fail. If you insist on having God as the arbitor of the state, then the state cannot be questioned (as it is tantamount to questioning God) and there for, when the State tells you your charity is lacking, my christian brother, what would you do?
No, it is best to keep the state out of the business of moral judgement and care for all our brothers and do just enough to allow each man to serve himself or his brother or his gods as he choose.
Posted: 08 Aug 2011 18:52
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Quote: Why not they got to do something I can use.
Uhm no. Fixing or making roads is one of the things you have repeatedly charged the government for being specifically responsible for while decrying all their other extravagances and waste. 'Why not?' doesn't explain why. Try again. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 09 Aug 2011 15:02
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If our founders meant for the government to take care of roads then they should, if it was something that was supposed to be left up to the states then the states should do it.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere as to what the government does or doesn't do. The more they do the bigger they are, the more power they have, and the less we have. The more taxes they collect. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 10 Aug 2011 06:05
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Quote: There has to be a line drawn somewhere as to what the government does or doesn't do. The more they do the bigger they are, the more power they have, and the less we have. The more taxes they collect.
You know Tim that is something I think we can all agree on, the question is whether or not the line is being drawn reasonably.
The government has to collect taxes, is it collecting those taxes in most effective fashion or is it giving some a better deal than others. The government needs to stay out of our business, but we do want them to get into other peoples business when it is in our best interest (whether that's the EPA or the NSA).
The founders wanted a functional government that could unite the whole nation towards a common purpose. Had they wanted an ineffectual nontaxing government they would have kept the articals of confederation. They built the republic after rejecting the sort of states at the top weak central authority government that some on the right now suggest is their goal.
Posted: 10 Aug 2011 18:30
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I want the government to focus on keeping me and my family safe, and that's about it really. I think they should focus on defense, law, and keeping our food supply safe. I like to think my food is safe to eat. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 10 Aug 2011 20:00
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So you like EPA and the FDA and the NSA and the FBI. That's good we can agree that the state has a role in service to it's people.
Now, here's a question, the department of transporation keeps your family safe on the road, making sure that truckers aren't over worked and that roads are kept usable, and bridges are safe to cross. So I guess the departmetn of transportation is a good one to. And the FAA which makes sure the plane you and your family get on isn't held together by spit and bailing wire, and ensures that planes don't buzz your house to make better time on their routes. And although you won't admit it you probably would like to make sure that a company isn't selling you a bill of goods when they've assured you it's a AAA gold standard investment, so you might even see a point to the consumer protection agency.
You can see how this goes and how easy it is to find both ways to make your family unsafe in the interest of profit on the part of corporations and and ways inwhich the government can take action to protect you. And even if you say you would reject one or another form of protection, the fact is you say that as a person who has avoided that particular pittfall, but not one who is imune to them.
Posted: 10 Aug 2011 21:34
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Quote: I want the government to focus on keeping me and my family safe
Stunning support of socialized medicine. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Aug 2011 15:22
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Difference between keeping me safe with a gun, or being our nurses. I don't need another mother just a law man keeping the bad guys away. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 11 Aug 2011 17:23
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You mean a law man like Elizabeth Warren and the Consumer protection agency?
Posted: 11 Aug 2011 17:27
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I was thinking about Wyatt Earp or that Walking Tall guy but ok. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 11 Aug 2011 18:10
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Well, good, I'm glad you recognize that not every criminal shows up at your door with a gun. Next we've just got to get you to see the other forces plotting against you...soon you'll be one of us..one of us...
