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| Posted: 01 Oct 2007 20:48 |
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Raiders played the Chargers at Jack Murphy Stadium, somebody got stabbed. What??? Man that's taking it to far,it's just a game....
__________________ i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems  |
| Posted: 01 Oct 2007 22:38 |
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There is a difference between a street preacher on public property doing something that has been done since the foundation of this country and beyond and what you're describing.
In both examples an activity is going on with a particular group that another group does not approve of and the second group infringes on the first-what difference are you talking about?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 04:36 |
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Pak, is it your position that a militant homosexual entering a church service on church owned property with the express intent and purpose of disrupting the service is constitutionally protected free speech?
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 07:28 |
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My position is that free speech of one person isn't meant to be squashed by the free speech of another.
Another way to put it might be that interrupting someone is rude.
..and where'd you get the militant part from?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 07:40 |
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While we're at it, you don't think preaching at a gay pride parade-their gay pride parade, that they paid to have and enjoy-is an intrusion on their event?
It's this particular curiosity that I find myself debating with Tim over again and again. Speaking your mind is one thing and preaching is one thing to a willing listener. Forcing your opinion on an individual or group where you and that opinion are not wanted, welcolmed or even invited in the first place is quite another. The preacher up on the pulpit speaking to his congregation of what scripture says is quite a bit different than some loudmouth busybody on a bullhorn condemning the enemy who were minding their own business and not hurting or subverting anyone(save the bit about sinners and sin please-they're mixing with their own).
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 07:50 |
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Here's another example, just to take the religion out of the equation a second.
If you still go to theatres, you would know how annoying a crying baby can be while you're watching the film(sad to say, even and especially if the baby is yours). As a paying customer, you can go to the management and complain. Does the management have the right to tell the parents of that child they have to gag the child or leave, or even just make them leave from the go?
You don't like that example? Try this one.
You're on a bus or subway or even a sidewalk standing there minding your own business when all of a sudden the guy next to you breaks into song. He might be a street performer(with a permit), or someone listening to an IPOD or just a really happy guy who has to sing. That shouldn't be a bad thing. There's certainly no law against singing in public(barring lewd content, excessive volume, panhandling, etc).
The problem is, this guy is God-Awful. He sounds like he gargles with ammonia, helium and bleach. It's just absolutely dreadful and you feel like you will lose your mind if you have to keep listening to it. As the listener, what are your rights? As the street performer with a permit, what are your rights?
Take some time and think about that before answering guys.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 15:11 |
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I think it's bizarre that they can have a gay parade at all on a city street. Talk about needing something seperated from the state. What about the average citizen's view or the children running around?
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Forcing your opinion on an individual or group where you and that opinion are not wanted That's exactly what a gay parade is doing by taking over an entire street. A street paid for by taxes mind you. I wonder what you'd say if that was a Christian day parade.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 15:21 |
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Whether it's a gay parade or Christian one-I wouldn't attend personally. Whatever group pays for the event and gets a permit to have it, gets to have it. That could be the ACLU or the KKK or NAMBLA or FEMA or the Protestants or England's labour party.
There were probably banners and/or posters up for weeks. If you don't want your kids exposed to gay pride or Protestants or whatever is going on there, you keep your kids from it. If it would be such a black eye or detriment for a town(village, etc), the event would not have gotten the permit to be on that street.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 15:24 |
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If it would be such a black eye or detriment for a town(village, etc), the event would not have gotten the permit to be on that street. Oh, sure, like i believe that one.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 15:28 |
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What are you disbelieving?
(feel the need for chat room again)
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 15:37 |
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There were just 5 of us on here at the same time, must be a record.
Get the chat room Tim. 
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 15:47 |
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..and where'd you get the militant part from?
I apologize. I assume that anyone who would do such a thing would be a tad militant. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.Quote:
While we're at it, you don't think preaching at a gay pride parade-their gay pride parade, that they paid to have and enjoy-is an intrusion on their event? It is an event being held on a public street, and to the best of my kowledge, it's free. The courts have upheld again and again the right of an opposing group under such circumstances to make their prescence known , prodviding it is within the constraints of the law and is done in a non-violent manner. Trust me, I've had protesters show up when I preach, and I have to live with it. That's the double edged sword of freedom.
Now, from a Christian perspective, there is certainly a right way and a wrong way to do it, and I don't single out gay pride parades. I either go where there's a crowd or I create my own, but I do it peacefully and within the confines of the law. The laws get a little tighter every year, and are enforced rather capriciously in my opinion, but that's life. I try to do it in a spirit of love and compassion, but with an intent to stand for the truth. If I'm across the street from an open-air restaurant (like I often was in SD) I try to be respectful of that, but the goal is after all, to be heard. I have to sometimes be a little loud to be heard over the traffic, but I make it a point not to shout directly at people. These are just some of my personal convictions and lessons I've learned the hard way. But at the end of the day, I have to know within myself that I did what i was supposed to do, and whatever if was received well or not, that's between them and God.
Now, back to our singing friend. An excellent example, kudos to you. I have no constitutional right to not be offended in public. I am offended on a pretty regular basis, actually. Oh well. There is no law against singing badly in public (barring noise ordinances and stuff like that, I know you understand) and assuming the guy a)needs a permit and b)has a permit, then he has the floor until he decides to leave or his permit expires. I would be willing to tolerate his lack of talent in order to erspect his rights and acknowledge both our freedoms. I also wouldn't hang around any longer than I had to.
Reasonable enough for you?
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 16:15 |
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Reasonable enough for you?
I expected nothing less from you. 
Thing is, people are trying to be heard over each other all the time- advertising, talk shows, preaching, chatrooms, forums . Everyone here has the right to free speech. The problems begin when one voice thinks they have the right to be heard over all others. The problem is furthered when people think that free speech is somehow 'absolute'-for lack of a better word-suffice to say; say anything, to anyone, about anything at any time and any volume. It doesn't work that way. Toss in some clashing agendas and/or lifestyles and some innocents get caught in the crossfire. This is why we are so burdened with laws, and statutes, and codes, and guidelines, and procedure and so on. A little common courtesy could have went a really long ways here. Why doesn't it? One person or group exercising their free speech right to try and shut down the same right for another. It's like children on a playground going 'Shut up!" 'No, you shut up', ad nauseum. Now we toss in the crying babies and bad singers. Things heat up when you try someone's patience. Heated tempers become heated words become heated actions.
All this is unfortunately why a school tells a girl what she can't say in a speech, why we have hate speech legislation, and why 75 year old grandmothers get tossed in squad cars. People have misunderstood, misused, and even abused their freedom to the point that it is barely recognizable from what was originally intended by the founders.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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