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| Posted: 21 Jan 2009 19:22 |
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This sounds more like you want to end abortion to spite the left, instead of looking at the actual issue. Enough with the party line bs, please.
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There couldn't be that many abortions performed for cases of incest and rape.
How many does it take to not completely outlaw abortion altogether?
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I can't understand the logic of abortion as a means of birth control.
I'm none too thrilled with that one myself. There's a couple factors I have to keep coming back to though.
First off, those kids you think you can tell just to remain celibate? That don't work. That's one of those Christian standards I keep asking you guys about. It'd be nice for you guys if we lived back in times when kids were too afraid of getting caught to attempt much at all, especially with any frequency. Those times are done. These kids need proper sex education and full access to contraceptives with the proper knowledge of how to use them. That puritanical thing of combining the well wishing of abstinence with keeping contraceptives out of their hands has been a disaster. We need to focus on preventing them from getting pregnant, the right way.
Secondly, if the percentage of abortions done for rape,incest, fetal defect or maternal mortality is a measly 1%, this is enough to keep abortion around and legal as it is right now. If those kids are getting proper sex ed and contraception, the number of overall pregnancies will drop, reducing the overall number of unwanted ones, reducing the overall number of abortions done which will increase that percentage of why they're done. Cause and effect, basic economics.
Third, a new perspective has been brought to my attention. Toward that end, I have a question for both of you. Do you consider a human without brain activity alive? From a scientific standpoint, brain death equals no reason to keep a body on support as that 'person' and everything about them is gone and all you have left is basically a soulless husk you feed intravenously(spelling?) and clean out a collastamy bag for. Perhaps there's a Christian standpoint, but in case you've missed anything I've ever said before, we're looking at reasons for EVERYONE and not just Christians. So, keeping all that in mind, would you say that a human without brain activity is not really alive? (that should be a yes-without a brain the body can't perform the simplest tasks like remembring to breathe and everything has to be done by machine). If you agree with me that this a yes at this point, then please be advised that a fetus does not gain brain activity until approximately 8 weeks in. Please also be aware that Roe V Wade only gives the mother the first trimester to make that terrible decision. Interesting timing, like the parties involved in that legal decision knew this already and helped inform their decision. At least that's interesting to me. You can decide for yourself.
Now I realize you might want to tug at the heartstrings at this point and try moving me with a story about what the baby feels through that terrible horrible disgusting inhumane process-the answer there would be nothing since there's no nervous system to affect in that time period.
After that all you've really got left that I can think of are strictly religious issues, which don't phase me one bit-unless there was something else you wanted to add. In that case feel free.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2009 23:10 Last Edited By: Tim |
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Problem with running around encouraging kids to use birth control is that you are telling them it's ok to have sex outside of marriage. Something they don't need to be doing. It's a cultural thing. The culture has told kids it's ok. That's why they do it. That's got to change.
I think you have to be aware that the radical left for one has always been pushing to have abortions later. A baby 8 weeks old will have full brain function in the future. If a man is completely brain dead ( can't even breathe) with no hope of ever having the slightest twinge of brain activity that's 2 different things.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 22 Jan 2009 03:50 |
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Problem with running around encouraging kids to use birth control is that you are telling them it's ok to have sex outside of marriage.
or that you understand that the kids are going to have sex anyway. If can't make the concession to accept this reality, you are a part of the problem of what got us where we are. No sex before marriage is a religious concern, not a secular one.
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the radical left for one has always been pushing to have abortions later.
ENOUGH with the party line crap.
Another reason to keep Roe V Wade in place, as is, is so the timeline limit is NOT moved, regardless of who is pushing one way or another.
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A baby 8 weeks old will have full brain function in the future. If a man is completely brain dead ( can't even breathe) with no hope of ever having the slightest twinge of brain activity that's 2 different things.
The only way babies would have different stages of growth than now is a conscious effort at meddling with the natural process-that isn't going to happen all by itself.
A brain dead man versus a fetus that has never had brain activity at all is not two different things when you come down to the basic question of them being alive or not.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 22 Jan 2009 16:40 |
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or that you understand that the kids are going to have sex anyway. Do you not understand though that kids have been having more sex due to the culture. It's something that can be controlled but it takes a whole culture to change its spots. In the 50's when there was a huge stigma on sex teens weren't showing up pregnant all the time.
Sure the teens were probably treated way to roughly, but still there is a lesson to learn by studying the past.
If society pets kids on the head and says well we can't stop you from having sex so here's a condom. Then of course they are going to have sex. Teens drive fast more than adults, but we don't stop enforcing speed limits to teen drivers.
I'm not one for giving up myself. I don't believe in the no win scenario.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 22 Jan 2009 20:11 |
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Do you not understand though that kids have been having more sex due to the culture.
Nope. They're having sex because that's what kids have done since there have been kids. You didn't hear about it so often way back when, but kids didn't just change overnight. Just for a visual representation, you, of all people have to remember 'Back to the Future' when Marty goes back in time and meets his mom when she was his age. She's something of a minx, she smokes, rails against her parents just that little rebellious bit and is just a normal teenager.
Are kids more adventurous because of the culture? Unfortunately yes. The thing with lipstick parties and day-glo bracelets advertising what each one will do to another is a bit disturbing, even to me. I'd have to be blind not to notice all that garbage going on. The answer you want is proper sex education in the schools at around the time they can possibly start having kids-(don't faint)-around 12 or 13 years old. This is not patting them on the head. Let the girls see a real delivery, with all the screaming and blood for one. Let the boys walk around with the anchor of having to watch a 'baby' for a week- one that makes noise continuously. Proper education, at least to me.
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I don't believe in the no win scenario.
You can decide what win and lose mean for starters.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 23 Jan 2009 17:21 |
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Let the girls see a real delivery, with all the screaming and blood for one. Let the boys walk around with the anchor of having to watch a 'baby' for a week- one that makes noise continuously. Proper education, at least to me.
I'm all for that. Teaching consequences of sex is great. I'm against passing out condoms and telling kids you believe they are going to have sex no matter what instead of firmly saying to the kids you need to wait. But yeah teaching kids the consequences of sex is a very smart idea.
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You can decide what win and lose mean for starters.
I don't believe in just throwing up my hands and saying all kids are going to have sex. Even in today's climate there are still kids that wait till marriage. Parents don't normally stand for their kids smoking, drinking and the like. Why should parents just turn their heads on the sex matter.
But when I think of training a child I just don't think you yell don't do that. Explaining why, teaching, and lecturing kids about right and wrong is key. It takes longer for things to sink into a teenager's mind, but they can be reached with logic eventually.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 23 Jan 2009 19:10 |
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I'm against passing out condoms and telling kids you believe they are going to have sex no matter what instead of firmly saying to the kids you need to wait.
You're not handing out free passes or invitations or licenses. The kids get educated on consequences and behaviors and health issues, and then make a choice for themselves(which they are going to do regardless of what any adults think). If they decide, after their education, that they are going ahead with it, they'll have the presence of mind at least to protect themselves. That's the plan on paper anyways.
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I don't believe in just throwing up my hands and saying all kids are going to have sex.
Would you prefer to weed out the ugly misfits as prurient first? All kids have those urges even if they don't know what they are, and the ugly misfits, if they can get over themselves, usually find each other to experiment on.
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Why should parents just turn their heads on the sex matter.
That's the last thing parents should be doing. Don't teach shame, don't avoid the subject and just hope it goes away, don't leave the job up to someone else. It's their job to teach the kids in the first place, but I find a striking similarity to this in the gun issue where the parents and too screwed up and inept to do the job right because of their parents failing at it before them.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 24 Jan 2009 16:22 |
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It's a never ending spiral from my point of view. First society turns it's backs on God and his rules. Then morality and common sense get thrown out the window. Pretty soon you have a whole generation of mind numbed idiots raising another generation of mind numbed idiots.
Look when you teach a kid right and wrong you don't go into it with the attitude that you don't have any control over the outcome. At least not to the kid's face. You tell him like it is.
Example -
Jr. you go screwing around you're liable to get some deadly disease and die, or you're likely to get some girl pregnant and have to pay to raise a kid from chick you probably only knew for one week and never wants to see you again anyway. Wait till your married and find someone that actually gives a rat's butt whether you live or die before you have sex with them.
Something like that in your best Clint Eastwood voice.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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