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Political Discussion / Politics / Creationism VS Evolution / Fired for His Faith

Posted:  18 Nov 2008 18:27

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Dr. Nathaniel Abraham, Ph.D., is a biologist, scholar, and research scientist specializing in zebrafish, developmental biology, and programmed cell death.  He was fired from Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, a highly esteemed research facility based in New England in March of 2004.  The reason?  Dr. Abraham believes in Creation and does not accept evolution as a scientific fact.  With his termination, Dr. Abraham became one of many scientists and academics who have dedicated years of their lives to the pursuit of scientific knowledge; but because they are unwilling to spout the "party line" with respect to evolution, they are being forced out of their field.

Read how CLA is defending the rights of this Christian scientist to practice his profession consistent with his faith.

http://www.christianlaw.org/Articles/un-science.html
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Posted:  18 Nov 2008 20:44

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Its a shame isn't it? To be fired because of a difference of opinion. Kind of reminds me of the time Obama kicked three journalists (who wrote for conservative newspapers) off of his jet for no known reason.
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Posted:  18 Nov 2008 22:06

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Sounds like you'd have a reason to be upset, if that were the whole truth. It would be really odd to find someone who's fired for their faith alone-let me know if you do-it ain't this guy.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/12/07/biologist_fi ...

Quote:
In a 2004 letter to Abraham, his boss, Woods Hole senior scien tist Mark E. Hahn, wrote that Abraham said he did not want to work on "evolutionary aspects" of the National Institutes of Health grant for which he was hired, even though the project clearly required scientists to use the principles of evolution in their analyses and writing.


He refused to do what he was hired to do. Nothing spectacular here.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  19 Nov 2008 15:26

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Also on page 2 you should read

Quote:
But Gibbs said that Abraham, after disclosing his religious beliefs to Hahn, was subjected to a hostile work environment. "There was a systematic attempt for him to change his beliefs or resign," Gibbs said. "His life has been turned upside down by this."


I'd say that if evolution were true and necessary for this man's job then he would have not been able to do it for one day. From the reading it seems that if he had not said anything about his beliefs nobody would have been the wiser which indicates evolution was not necessary to to his job.
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Posted:  19 Nov 2008 15:56

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Quote:
From the reading it seems that if he had not said anything about his beliefs nobody would have been the wiser which indicates evolution was not necessary to to his job.


No, he actually said he wouldn't do what he was supposed to. When asked why he might have responded about his faith, but his mentioning or response about faith wasn't what got him fired according to the news article. It was refusing to do what his employer was paying him to do.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  20 Nov 2008 16:45

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Look I'm willing to bet that believing in evolution had nothing to do with the actual functionality of his job, but even so as a scientist the deal is supposed to be about seeking the truth is it not? There is no set standard of evolution for one to go on anyway. The theory is always changing, and who makes it change? Scientist do. So him being a scientist doesn't that give him the right to seek answers from his own perspective? Not that I believe this you understand, but what if there were an answer outside of both evolution and creationism? Nobody would ever know it because scientists are so married to evolution.
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Posted:  20 Nov 2008 19:11

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Quote:
I'm willing to bet that believing in evolution had nothing to do with the actual functionality of his job


Modern biology can't function without it and it was in his 'job description'.

Quote:
There is no set standard of evolution for one to go on anyway.

That's news to me. I don't think you're right on this but I'd like to hear further thoughts just the same. No, the theory is not always changing, at least to my knowledge. If you could post an article or link that led you to this conclusion I'd be glad to look it over.

Quote:
him being a scientist doesn't that give him the right to seek answers from his own perspective?

Scientist or not, he was an employee being paid for something pretty specific which he refused to do. That's the issue.

Quote:
but what if there were an answer outside of both evolution and creationism?

There probably is. It might be a combination of both for all we know. We do not have the final solution yet.

Quote:
scientists are so married to evolution.

That's a very bitter marriage there then. The theory of evolution is probably the single most opposed piece of science in existence.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  20 Nov 2008 19:34

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Quote:
Modern biology can't function without it


Sure it can. You can be a biologist and a Christian at the same time.
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Posted:  21 Nov 2008 00:07

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Quote:
Modern biology can't function without it and it was in his 'job description'
Well I'm sorry but I don't think you are qualified to even state that unless you have a degree in biology.
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Posted:  21 Nov 2008 02:39

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Quote:
Sure it can. You can be a biologist and a Christian at the same time.

Nobody said you couldn't be both. This is about biology and evolution-no, it really can't.

Quote:
I don't think you are qualified to even state that unless you have a degree in biology.

You don't need a degree to state either part. Modern biology does indeed rely on evolution theory-learned this by watching Dawkins. It was in his job description-learned this from the news article I quoted. No degree necessary on my part.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  21 Nov 2008 18:53

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So basically all you can do is take the word of the one that fired the guy. You don't have the expertise necessary nor enough knowledge of biology to verify your position in a court of law. Not based upon your own knowledge.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
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Posted:  21 Nov 2008 21:15

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Quote:
You don't have the expertise necessary nor enough knowledge of biology to verify your position in a court of law.


If we're to go that far, then you shouldn't have brought it up yourself at all. You don't have the experience or knowledge yourself.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  22 Nov 2008 16:46

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I have enough expertise necessary to post an opinion. You come off sounding like you believe yourself some sort of expert. No offense.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
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