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Political Discussion / Politics / General Political Discussion / Just Can't Quit: How Far Will Smoking Bans Go?(ReasonTV)

Posted:  13 Nov 2008 01:11

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Quote:
ecently, the Bay Area city of Belmont passed a law that targets people who smoke in their own homes. “I’m pretty sure I still live in America,” says smoker and Belmont resident David Scott.

But if Scott lights up once the new law takes effect in January, he might just get a visit from a police officer. The mayor who championed the new law declares, “It is our responsibility to take care of everyone!’ and a pro-ban councilmember who worries about smoke wafting into neighboring units compares smoking in an apartment to shooting a gun through the wall.

Smoking is one of the worst things you can do to your body, but how dangerous is second-hand smoke? Are banners saving lives or battering science? Are they progressive champions or plunderers of property rights?

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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  13 Nov 2008 19:04

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From my perspective it's very bizarre that a place like California that says anything goes socially is so bent on taking away a person's choice on smoking.

Seems to me it's just a chance for the government to have just a little more power. They choose what's right and wrong in your life instead of you.

Now I still have to say smoking is a really bad thing to do just not the ultimate sin some people would like to say it is.  Since smoking is bad for a person's health though it's not something that I or most people want to fight for. Or at least expend a lot of energy fighting for.

If I were to ban something I'd go for drinking first. Just because a person that is drunk is probably more of an immediate threat to those around them than a smoker.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
Posted:  14 Nov 2008 03:11

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There's a very long list of things where people don't mind the government limiting someone's freedom.

Do you happen to see the connection to this and the gay marriage ban, by any chance?

Tim, I have to ask you, as a person who has said in the past that they want smaller government and how upset they've been at how large our government has gotten, how can you possibly be OK with the government banning people from doing anything that does no harm to anyone else?
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  14 Nov 2008 16:53

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If you are referring to gay marriage then think of this way. The government isn't banning gay marriage. The government is just not giving it a legal seal of approval. I'm sure as I've said before these people can call themselves married if they want.

You know for the majority of people marriage is about not just a commitment to a person, but a promise before God Almighty to stay with said person till death. It's a personal commitment as well as legal.


But you tell me how a gay person's life is changed by not having a piece of paper? They just want society to say it's ok. That's all this about. They want society to tell them their lifestyle is fine.

If they want to do it that's one thing, but surely asking the government and everybody else in the world to pat them on the back and say good job is asking way too much.

On smoking I don't know. I think the government should stay out it I guess. If you are going to ban it everywhere it would make better sense to stop selling the stuff first.

I'm torn on the cigs thing. It's stupid to smoke, but it's stupid for the government to micro manage every aspect of a person's life too.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
Posted:  14 Nov 2008 22:38

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Quote:
It's a personal commitment as well as legal.

When you branch over into the legal department, it stops being personal or solely religious.

Quote:
how a gay person's life is changed by not having a piece of paper?

Money and rights by association.

Quote:
asking the government and everybody else in the world to pat them on the back and say good job is asking way too much.

I don't see the point in marriage myself, so I never have and probably never will, so tell me. Did the government pat you on the back and say good job when you got married?

Quote:
On smoking I don't know.

They should probably stop making such a harmful product to begin with, but it's profitable, people trade stocks on it and it employs a good number of people. If they continue to make them, the government gets to tax the sale but their grip should end there. If their grip ends there, so do any health benefits for smokers or smoking related illnesses. I like juggling.

Perhaps they should just package tobacco instead of actual chemical laden cigarettes in the first place-would solve a lot.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  15 Nov 2008 00:28

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Quote:
Money and rights by association.
If that was all it was to it, they'd just be pushing for civil unions.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
Posted:  15 Nov 2008 14:14

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Civil unions and marriages do not share a majority of benefits or rights. They're simply not equal.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  18 Nov 2008 18:12

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Then I'm sure they'd push to get the particular item that they wanted. What exactly is it that they can't get through some other means that they can only get by calling their agreement a marriage?

I'm willing to bet that right now a person could draw up legal papers that would take care of most if not all of any benefits of marriage other than perhaps tax benefits.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
Posted:  18 Nov 2008 22:16

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I posted a vid about this in the prop 8 thread. It would give you guys back your religious term and equal rights for everyone by removing government from marriage altogether.

I'll leave it rest here.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  19 Nov 2008 15:38

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How about we leave marriage alone period and don't feel the obligation to change things every time some new group gets upset.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
Posted:  19 Nov 2008 15:42

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I like the idea of government removing it's deathly grip from that area of our lives instead altogether. You get you holy specific union back and I get the piece of mind of further separation of church an state.

You really should watch that vid if you haven't already-you do have something to gain from it.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  20 Nov 2008 16:40

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You guys are always wanting to change everything. I figure if it was good enough for our founders it's good enough for us. The only thing that needed changing for the most part that our founders didn't really get to fixing was slavery. That in part was due to the fact that it was such a part of the economy for farmers that politically it would have been murder to get rid of right off the bat. I think the founders for the most part would have loved got rid of it though back at the start.

Their plate was pretty full at the time though.
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Shtarker: Too bad about all the dead movie stars.
Siegfried: Yes. What will we do without their razor-sharp political advice. - played by Terence Stamp aka Zod from the movie Get Smart.
Posted:  20 Nov 2008 19:16

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Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
You guys are always wanting to change everything.

What is this 'you guys' you refer to?

The reason marriage is no longer a strictly religious concept is because of government involvement. I can't understand in the slightest why you want to keep this. Not one little bit.
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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